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Julie (00:05):

All right. Well, today on our risk rundown, we have our special guest, Joe Norick. He is our equine Practice specialty leader, and I'm so excited to have you joining me today. So thank you so much.

Joe (00:19):

Well, thank you, Julie. It's a pleasure to be here. Very excited to talk about this line of business and all the things we do. So I'm going to let you fire away with a few questions.

Julie (00:28):

That sounds good. Well, first and foremost, what I would love to find out from you and let the viewers find out from you is how and why did you get into this line of business? What started it all, did you use to ride horses? Tell me a little bit about your background so that everyone can kind of have an understanding about why you're so passionate about this topic.

Joe (00:49):

With pleasure. As a kid, my family was into horses. My father, my brother, we all rode and we've always loved the sport. And many years ago I always felt like this was something I wanted do is be around horses all my life. So after graduating school and going into business to learn to do a few things, my parents and my father specifically always said, get a career. Then if you want to do the horse business or do things around the horse business, at least you have something to fall back on. So that was the approach. I was at Krater and a horse salesman. I bought and sold horses in Europe for many years.

Julie (01:22):

So quick question for you. Do you remember the name of your very first horse?

Joe (01:28):

I can tell you I had, my first pony was named Meatball.

Julie (01:32):

I love it. Was it because it was shaped like a meatball or just because

Joe (01:36):

It was very round? I'll say that. It was very round, yes.

Julie (01:40):

Do you own horses now?

Joe (01:42):

I currently own horses, yes.

Julie (01:43):

How many do you have?

Joe (01:45):

I have less than five. Thank God we used to have a lot more, but right now, right now we're down to five horses. We have a couple that have been showing down in Florida. They'll be migrating back up to the northeast now getting ready for the circuit up there.

Julie (01:57):

At one point, what was the most number of horses that you had?

Joe (02:01):

40, 42.

Julie (02:03):

Wow.

Joe (02:03):

It's a great sport. Listen, I would tell anybody in the world today, whether it be for your spouse, yourself, or for your children, this is one of the greatest sports in the world. My children, I have three daughters and they have all enjoyed some aspect of the equine space, whether it be friends or riding and different things like that. It's just amazing.

Julie (02:22):

Well, I love that you have a very unique perspective. What do you find that that horse owners typically don't know? That they don't know that they should

Joe (02:32):

Know? Sir, a lot of our clients buy horses internationally, and one of the things you have to take in mind is you have to keep in perspective when you buy a policy here in America, it's an American based policy. So if you're shipping that horse from Europe, you need to make sure you have either worldwide coverage or you buy transit coverage from a horse shipping internationally, because technically your policy doesn't cover the horse on flight from Europe to America. So that would be a first thing. Many people just need to understand what the insurance is, and I think this is probably some of the things we're going to talk about. What is mortality insurance and what is major medical? And that's so important. And to be very honest, when they fill out the forms, they have to be very transparent telling us what's been done with the horse. Has there been any medical procedures or is it what we refer to as routine maintenance? Many of these things are big topics which we need to discuss and educate our clients so that we provide a perfect form of coverage or the best possible to protect them and make sure their claims get handled appropriately and quick if there is a problem.

Julie (03:34):

There is a lot of different aspects and a lot of different avenues that we could go down. When it comes to equine typically, and a lot of people, they put farm along with equine or ranch along with equine. And today we're really specifically talking about equine and equine mortality and like you said, the medical piece of it. So how does equine mortality work?

Joe (03:59):

When we talk about mortality? Mortality, it mirrors a life insurance policy on a human. That's what a mortality insurance is. We are ensuring the life of this animal. Now, if it had to be euthanized for a multitude of reasons, humane destruction would be the biggest one where it's in the best interest of the animal, it's in pain, it's suffering. No one in our world wants any animal to suffer in any way, shape or form, or if it's significant injury, significant injury is almost immediate. So those are the two factors that would be there to look after the client from a mortality basis. We also sell a product called major medical, major medical acts as a catastrophic coverage like in a health policy, which will help a client when a horse has to have some sort of surgical procedures. One of the biggest in our industry is colic. It's basically a bellyache. And because horses can't communicate like a human, there's a lot of investigation and exploratory work, which might be necessary to do to see what is involved. Is it an impaction, is it a twisted intestine, what it takes to make this horse healthy and whole Again,

Julie (05:06):

You had mentioned originally that it's kind of like a life insurance policy for a human life insurance policy per se. And with that, I mean, I'm just trying to think of things for people to relate to. It's your gender makes a difference, your age makes a difference, your lifestyle makes a difference, all on rating and acceptability. Is it kind of similar to this world that the breed might make a difference, the age, all that different kind of stuff? Are there different rating structures?

Joe (05:38):

Absolutely. They're triggers. A horse on the racetrack is far more vulnerable to an injury than a horse in the hunter jumper world. So you're going to see a rate difference. The only time you're going to see significant rate increases is they age, and that's usually when they get north of 15 years old, 15, 16, 17, 18. That looks a little different. We insure with medical through age 20, so we capture quite a bit of the span of their showing life and in general, horses do live a lot longer, but typically speaking, the companies today will insure with medical through age 20.

Julie (06:17):

Are there any preexisting conditions that are excluded?

Joe (06:20):

Sure could be. So if a horse has had a colic surgery and they do a resection, that horse would probably have an exclusion placed on it, so it would never be insurable again for colic. Now, in the same case, if a horse had a colic that it was very simple, just maybe a little flim, they didn't touch any, no surgical requirements other than the incision, that horse will be able to be reinsured if it has a clean colic history, meaning even just symptoms of colic, that horse could be reinsured within one year with a colic policy as well. No exclusion. So it's a case by case basis. And there are other things. You look at heart murmurs, there could be injuries to legs. Again, this is all things that we typically find out during a pre-purchase exam when an owner buys a horse and a veterinarian will do an examination this animal and make a determination on that day to the best of their ability, and then we'll use that information to help underwrite an insurance.

Julie (07:16):

I'm assuming that there's not a slew of insurance companies that specialize in this, right?

Joe (07:23):

Yes, we have a couple of carriers we have very specific relationships with, and they're long relationships. Two or three companies we try and identify that we work with the most.

Julie (07:32):

So that's a really good segue to kind of talk about the purchasing of horses. How is a value of a horse determined and what do we insure it for? Do we ensure it for how much they purchased it for? Do we ensure it for market value? Do we ensure it for appraised value like we do a piece of art or other piece of valuable article?

Joe (07:53):

Initially, we always start out a pre-purchase and the price that the individual pays for the horse is what we're going to insure it for on that given day. Because typically the horses will be purchased based on what they're producing, either in sport as a racehorse or as a show jumper or a top level dressage horse.

Julie (08:10):

Okay. So how is a policy paid out? So for example, let's say that this is a prodigy, right? And then all of a sudden something happens to the horse. Is it basically just a payout of the value of the horse or is it the payout of the possible earnings that they've missed out on? Or how does that payout happen?

Joe (08:32):

So that's a question that has many answers. So I want to break it down. In the show horse world, if you purchase a jumper and you pay X amount of dollars, say it's a million dollars for the horse and the horse is competing and going around but sustains a catastrophic injury and we have an insured policy at a million, they're going to receive a million dollars.

There'll, there'll be information that is required for a proof of loss and the veterinarians, and there'll be approval from the adjusters unless it's a catastrophic injury where the veterinarian always has the right to do what is necessary for the wellbeing of the animal. Most important is the animal always, every carrier, everyone substantiates that. The veterinarian on site has that authority at that point, even over the adjuster. Now, if that be the case, that would be the payoff. There are things where you can ensure stallions who are breeding, and as long as they pass all the tests and the semen is potent enough to keep these mares going and do what it has to be, you can ensure the value of a horse's breeding abilities and capabilities by the number of mares it's going to have in a given year that it will try impregnate as well as the price of the stud fee. So that's one sector. We also have a form of insurance called loss of use. Loss of use is where an individual can purchase a policy at a value up to a certain age and up to a certain amount of a horse to where if the horse has an injury but not such that it would make it due for humane destruction, but it becomes a pasture pet, so to speak. They

Joe (10:09):

Can receive a certain portion that has limitations from 50 to 75, 80% depending upon the injury and depending upon the owner's desire to keep the horse or not. It's a little vague, not my favorite type of insurance to sell, but people do purchase it.

Julie (10:26):

So what kind of risk mitigation strategies are out there that people can try to avoid risk in this kind of world? What can the horse owners do to best keep their horses safe?

Joe (10:43):

Obviously, your trainer and your veterinarian are always two of the best sources. So if you're getting ready for a big competition series and you're shipping long way, a lot of our clients migrate east, west, and north south. It's a lot of shipping on animals. You look to protect them, build up their re, get them well treated. You always look to make sure you keep up on your shots for all the various things. We have a warming protocol to keep their intestines in great shape and keep things good in their bellies. The stress levels. My biggest thing with horses, as a trainer, as an owner, I always look to keep my horses under the least amount of stress as possible. Competition puts stress on them. So find a way to keep the environment safe, sane, and make a horse feel good. That's the most important.

Julie (11:26):

But on the flip side of that, I would assume that it would be very hard to lose a horse, and I'm sure that you've seen clients that you've had to work with, clients that have lost a horse and have had to call you and say, Joe, unfortunately I need to collect on this insurance policy. I'm sure that that's a really hard conversation to have with them because they're very emotional, I would assume.

Joe (11:50):

Absolutely. There is a passion. I mean, that's why I'm in it. It's a passionate business and we love these animals. I can't tell that you're passionate at all about it, Joe. No, not at all. Not at all. But that's when I prove my worth. When I stand there by your side and we walk through the problem, and if it is a case we're putting a horse down or there's a loss, that's when you sell yourself to be the best person you can be. I stand right by their side. I make sure we have everything we need. I make sure they're taken care of, and we see it through to the end and stand right there with them. And that's what you have to do.

Julie (12:23):

It's a tough thing, right? It's a tough event and it's to have the support is extra special for sure.

Joe (12:32):

I think in today's world, especially the closeness, the support of others professionals, it's so important because it's a crazy time in our world, in our life, and I think if people get together and support one another, it makes it a lot easier for everybody,

Julie (12:50):

And especially that's a very vulnerable experience. You're very heartbroken. So it's a very vulnerable experience. You don't share that with too many people. So I know that you've become probably pretty close with some of the people that you work with for sure.

Joe (13:03):

And they've become great friends, and that's the nicest part. This industry is so amazing. There's professional and of course personal relationships that are created. They do overlap, and I find myself to be one of the luckiest guys in the world to have that.

Julie (13:16):

That's so awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Pleasure. We could be talking so much more about this. That is for sure.

Joe (13:25):

I love my job. It's really simple. I love a phone call whenever it comes in to help somebody, because if you're going to do this and you're going to be in the insurance world, you are here to help others and protect them. And I love the fact that they count on me and I count on them.

Julie (13:41):

Yeah, exactly. Well, if people need to find out more information, that can go to alliant private client.com and find information on that. And as always, we want people to stay safe and safe protected. So thank you so much, Joe.

Joe (13:57):

Absolutely a pleasure. Julie. Thank you for taking time today.

Host: Julie Rison – Director, Strategic Client Relationships
Guest: Joe Norick – Equine, Farm & Ranch Specialty Practice Leader

00:00 – Welcome & introduction
Julie introduces Joe and sets the stage for a deep dive into the world of equine risk management.

00:49 – From childhood passion to professional expertise
Joe shares how he got into the equine world (including his first pony's name) and built a career focused on protecting these animals and the people who care for them. 

02:22 – Common Coverage gaps horse owners overlook
From international transit exclusions to policy transparency, Joe highlights what horse owners often don’t realize and how to avoid costly assumptions.

03:57 – Equine mortality & major medical coverage explained
Learn the essential differences between mortality insurance (similar to life insurance for humans) and major medical (which covers surgeries like colic procedures). Both are foundational to a comprehensive equine risk strategy.

05:54 – Determining the value of a horse
Insurance costs are influenced by the horse’s discipline, breed, and age. Joe explains why a racehorse commands different underwriting than a show hunter or dressage horse. Initial policies are based on the purchase price, but performance, pedigree, and breeding potential all factor into valuation. 

08:32 – Claims scenarios: Mortality, breeding loss, and loss of use
Joe explains various types of coverage, including payout structures for catastrophic loss, breeding stallion income potential, and partial disability or “loss of use” coverage.

10:26 – Risk mitigation for horse owners
Routine care, stress management, and proactive veterinary partnerships are key. Joe offers a trainer’s perspective on how to keep horses healthy, especially during competition travel.

11:50 – Supporting clients through difficult moments
Joe speaks to the emotional side of equine ownership and how crucial it is to have a knowledgeable and compassionate advisor when claims must be made.

13:16 – Final thoughts: The equine insurance world is built on personal relationships
Joe reflects on the privilege of supporting clients not only as an advisor but as a true partner. Julie wraps with a reminder that insurance is about more than policies—it’s about protection, preparation, and peace of mind.